Welcome to EdgeofGarona.com
Edge is a casual Alliance guild in the World of Warcraft.
You are here: Edge of Garona » Forum » General Forums » Video Games » Mass Effect 3 (Spoilers)
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Mass Effect 3 (Spoilers)  (Read 1726 times)
Edge Member
Forum Goer
****
Internets: 20
Posts: 135
Offline Offline
« Reply #45 on: March 22, 2012, 11:59 AM »

Gotta be trolling.  No one is so dense that they consider throwing darts in the dark to be a sport.  At least I bloody hope not.

It's amusing that anyone who doesn't fall into line with the internet mob-think must be trolling and not just have a different opinion on the ending. Narratives with open/interpretative endings are typically unpopular with mainstream Western audiences; that Bioware got this reaction is really no surprise to me. I personally don't particularly like or dislike the ending and view it at least in part a way for Bioware to leave things open ended enough for them to have lots of creative room in creating future post-ME3 games/etc.

Quote
I'll give it to you though, Blass.  I commend your imagination as every factual point Wazuka or I have made and supported by clean and defined in-game references has been countered by a "Maybe..." statement or a retort that simply states our lack of understanding of the grander scheme.  Must be exhausting.

Nice ad hominem; I am - unsuccessfully - attempting to have a discussion of game's narrative based on analysis and interpretation of the text akin to literary and film criticism and discourse,  but you are insisting everything is absolutely literal to the point of absurdity, selectively dismissive of details and lore, and act like having played 200~ hours between the two previous games (my total time played between ME and ME2 is probably around 600 hours which I didn't feel like was a worthwhile point to make but hey since you and Waz stick on it I may as well too) makes you some ultimate authority.

Quote
Good to know that you're a fan of these sorts of endings though.  I'll get you Matrix 2 and 3, as well as Star Trek 5 for Christmas.

Those are all films whose problem is that they're terrible films, not because their endings are open or interpretive. Perhaps you meant Shane, Bladerunner, and Avalon (2001 JP). It's a style of narrative and clearly one you dislike and one I no particular predilection for or against.

And if you want my completely honest opinion of the game:

It's ok.

The gameplay is the best in the series with the enemy variety and power rebalancing making engagements less monotonous. However difficulty scaling still greatly narrows useful powers and tactics to a small and repetitive subset and the game can still generally be reduced to Sniper Rifle Effect or perhaps now Vanguard Effect. Squadmates are still practically useless unless you constantly babysit them and their power usage. I've had annoying issues with hit detection on some of the more oddly shaped enemies and apparently units with melee instant kills will sometimes decide to kill you outside of melee range because you happened to be near them 15-20 seconds ago.

Scenario design has an annoying "Shepherd go do everything" quality, especially when you happen to have squad members who you would think be just as capable of or perhaps even better at doing whatever holographic button pushing needs to be done (except in the occasions where you can specifically commit a squad member to sit on their ass and do nothing). It's clear that Shepherd's true arch-nemesis is architecture as it is probably has a better success rate at foiling Shepherd than Harbinger and TIM combined. Also I continue to be frustrated when scripted events and cutscenes have characters perform distinctly under the level they have been over the course of gameplay.

As for the narrative, while I'm generally very pleased with the closure given in the various Priority story points, I found the introduction of the Crucible and Catalyst to be incredibly dumb and more damning to the overall narrative and player agency than leaving the ending open for the players to interpret. But then that's the problem with the Reapers; they set them up to be so overwhelmingly powerful and unassailable (except when they aren't) such that they apparently resort to a superweapon to provide a means for the protagonists to 'fight back'. Disappointing, given the notion expressed in the first game by Shepherd that they're 'just machines', the idea that the Reapers didn't anticipate the Geth, the Geth have been divergent technologically, and their technology (such as Sovereign's main gun) has been able to be reverse-engineered. Leveling the playing field and fighting is much more interesting a possibility to me than you push the big red button of Reaper destruction.

But as I can tell, none of you have a problem with that concept. You would have been fine with fighting Harbinger, deciding whether to push the big red button or not, and then having long expository epilogue.
Logged

Administrator
Pirate King
*****
Internets: 45
Posts: 2230
Offline Offline
WWW
« Reply #46 on: March 22, 2012, 01:10 PM »

I like Bladerunner. I've always been extremely generous to movies/games/books about plot holes/inconsistencies/weird stuff happening at the end so long as the overarching story they weave together is pretty solid. I liked where ME1 was going and what ME2 continued. If I had to give ME3 a rating I'd toss it a 4/5 tbh.

I sighed irl with them introducing the superweapon in about the first 1-2 hours but the gameplay was solid so I largely ignored it and went on my way. The crucible itself was an interesting introduction based on the explanation of it at the end and it being a literal crucible for all the races of the galaxy but I still found it rather poorly implemented or developed. The deus ex machina of the catalyst/star child was a real turnoff, it really is the mark of uninspired writing.

What I got out of the ending was that Shep is fighting indoctrination in it's final stages. If you were a billy badass and got all the assets and choose to fight then you live, maybe. But I find it very boring they weave this heroic story of fighting against all odds, against adversity and triumph for over 100+ hours and then they decide to end on a rather cryptic/convoluted message that humans and machines are diametrically opposed and in the end, your struggle has been or will be largely fruitless. The choices you made along the way did matter, they mattered at the time and they tied up the plot points in ME3 which I can say I was mostly content with. But the reaping cycle will most likely continue, maybe. Joker landing on a planet and the colored beams going out I saw as Shep trying to reconstruct a happy ending for himself in his own mind, his friends far away from the destruction that was taking place. As I was watching the credits my first thought was, is this some Total Recall shit? Which btw I thought was a good movie. With the whole winter planet scene, I get it. Shep is suppose to be a legend/hero story where details were lost and each retelling accounts for the discrepancies between all the Sheps.

In the end I just think the ending was poorly written, paced, and developed.

But I don't know how accurate or fair it is to say Blass we are only interpreting the ending in the most absolute/literal way possible. Mass effect in it's final moments tried to be something it was not, at least I got the vibe it was trying to hard to fit a square in a circle hole. For over 100+ it was Dragon's Age:Origins, Baldur's Gate 1/2, KOTOR 1/2, SW:ToR and in it's final moments it breaks from that and becomes Total Recall. I appreciate change and the unexpected, but it just felt so forced and unnatural.

Also Faisrole, hardcore support for indoctrination comes from the iOS app stating they wanted to a full on hardcore indoctrination ending where you would lose control of Shep but the mechanics were too time intensive. Sounds like they went a different route on the same idea.
Logged

(oಠ_ಠ)o
Edge Member
Forum Goer
****
Internets: 20
Posts: 135
Offline Offline
« Reply #47 on: March 22, 2012, 03:15 PM »

Bioware was too subtle with the Catalyst's dialogue at the end; all the options presented (other than kill them) served the Reapers' purposes and the Catalyst's comments on the destroy option are designed to discourage choosing it (the relays are gunna totally blow up, the geth will die, you will die). There's no good reason to believe what the Catalyst has to say, or maybe better to paraphrase the Asari councilor - we can believe that the Reapers believe it, but that doesn't make it true. Though doing so would undermine the intent of having an ending open to interpretation.

As I've said the ending was a miscalculation on Bioware's part on many levels. I wonder if people's reactions would be different if you got to kill Harbinger and then had the stand-off on the Citadel and/or they didn't do the post-choice scenes (which seems to be 90% of what people get hung up on) and just cut to black/credits with a post-credits sting.
Logged

Edge Member
Forum Guru
****
Internets: 13
Posts: 650
Offline Offline
« Reply #48 on: March 22, 2012, 05:37 PM »

Heh.  My problem with your position is not that you disagree, more that I feel you skirt the facts under the guise of interpretation.  I'm all for a discussion rooted in reality, even if that reality is some under-arching thread and subtle subplot that ties the game together.  That just simply doesn't exist here without some massive assumptions and some pretty far stretches in any meaningful or quantifiable way.

I've watched both Shane and Bladerunner, love them both; hell, even something like Inception where there's elements left unresolved.  Open endings can be fantastic and complex, as the result of a well thought-out story arc.  Operative word being 'can'.  Sometimes an open ending is just because of shit writing or lack of direction.  Open endings aren't categorically good by default.

By your stance, ME3's ending then is either a fucking terribly written open ending, or an even worse literal ending.  There's a lot of us out there who simply think it's a massive write off of the franchise; western audience expectations notwithstanding given the Japanese fanbase reacted in nearly the same way as the western world did.  Doesn't mean that we farm-folk simpletons can't wrap our heads around what's there.  It's that what's there, even with some massive stretches is still shit.

And I'd have definitely liked some sort of event with Harbinger.  He's relegated to a cameo role after being so glorified in ME2.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2012, 09:23 PM by Collider » Logged
Edge Member
Forum Enthusiast
****
Internets: 9
Posts: 236
Offline Offline
The Mighty One
« Reply #49 on: March 22, 2012, 05:56 PM »

I won't like I was hoping for a

ending
Logged
Edge Member
Forum Guru
****
Internets: 64
Posts: 411
Offline Offline
« Reply #50 on: March 22, 2012, 06:00 PM »

Believe in the Shepard who believes in you.
Logged
Edge Member
Forum Goer
****
Internets: 20
Posts: 135
Offline Offline
« Reply #51 on: March 22, 2012, 07:19 PM »

Right now I'm most frustrated with the lack of an evasion move for Turians and Krogan in multi. That and ARs probably being too consumable dependent to be efficient in most cases.

And I really wish there was a unscoped version of the Raptor.

Also no more stupid character unlocks prz, I want a Scorpion and Javelin for multi. Sad
Logged

Administrator
Pirate King
*****
Internets: 45
Posts: 2230
Offline Offline
WWW
« Reply #52 on: March 22, 2012, 08:11 PM »

How do you like multi? I skipped doing any of it on my first run through.
Logged

(oಠ_ಠ)o
Edge Member
Forum Guru
****
Internets: 27
Posts: 562
Offline Offline
« Reply #53 on: March 22, 2012, 08:22 PM »

Do I play through 1 and 2 first before getting this?
Logged
Edge Member
Forum Goer
****
Internets: 20
Posts: 135
Offline Offline
« Reply #54 on: March 22, 2012, 08:25 PM »

It's fun enough to play, randumb teams can be annoying sometimes but otherwise it's been fine in that regard. Some of the balance within a couple of the classes is skewed - well depending on your opinion of certain abilities and whether you grind Gold maps.

Cerberus sentry turrets are still the most annoying thing ever - clearly TIM needs to give whoever made them a raise.
Logged

Edge Member
Forum Goer
****
Internets: 20
Posts: 135
Offline Offline
« Reply #55 on: March 22, 2012, 08:30 PM »

Do I play through 1 and 2 first before getting this?

With the introduction of ME: Genesis as DLC for the PC and Xbox there's less of a need to play ME. You also get to skip out on terrible inventory management UI, lackluster difficulty scaling (durr moar health and/or moar rokkits), and humping generic looking terrain with the Mako. On the upside there a number of small things that port over to ME2 you'll miss out on even with Genesis - though a few (like Conrad Verner and Sirta Foundation) never had their import fixed *ever* so meh. If you do play ME, make sure to play the Bring Down the Sky DLC, but ignore Pinnacle Station - it's pointless.

You do want to play ME2 w/ Lair of the Shadow Broker and Arrival. I think Kasumi is worth it too. It's fun and you'll want the loyalty flags for ME3.

Oh and also just play ME and ME2 on casual and blow through them if you're just playing them to get to ME3 - it drops about 10-12 hours off the play time. If you do play ME2 on normal or higher difficulty though I'll let you know that Overload greatly depreciates in value about 60% through the game and that running max Warp/Warp or Warp/Reave team mates is pretty much super easy mode even on insanity late game.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2012, 08:33 PM by Blassreiter » Logged

Edge Member
Pirate King
****
Internets: 11
Posts: 841
Offline Offline
I'm a penumbra panda
« Reply #56 on: March 23, 2012, 12:00 AM »

I've watched both Shane and Bladerunner, love them both; hell, even something like Inception where there's elements left unresolved.  Open endings can be fantastic and complex, as the result of a well thought-out story arc.  Operative word being 'can'.  Sometimes an open ending is just because of shit writing or lack of direction.  Open endings aren't categorically good by default.
From what I've watched/read so far, I'd compare this game and it's ending  in terms of the difference in quality and feeling of disconnect to the movie "No Country For Old Men". That movie was amazing until the last 10 or so minutes, and those minutes earned it some fairly potent ire in many circles.
Logged

If you'll excuse me, I have some facial hair that needs growing.
Edge Member
Forum Enthusiast
****
Internets: 9
Posts: 236
Offline Offline
The Mighty One
« Reply #57 on: March 23, 2012, 04:33 AM »

The multiplayer in mass effect 3 is the future of mass effect.
Logged
Edge Member
Forum Goer
****
Internets: 20
Posts: 135
Offline Offline
« Reply #58 on: March 23, 2012, 04:19 PM »

This weekend is +25% mp xp if anyone has yet to try the multi.
Logged

Edge Member
Forum Enthusiast
****
Internets: 9
Posts: 236
Offline Offline
The Mighty One
« Reply #59 on: March 24, 2012, 07:11 AM »

http://geek.pikimal.com/2012/03/22/controversy-erupts-over-mass-effect-3-writers-forum-post-name-release/



Well that might explain it.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

TinyPortal v.1.0.6 beta 2 © Bloc