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[Faisrole]

It's kind of awesome if you fail clutch paragon/renegade checks.
Squad members suiciding etc.

[Collider]

lol.  I'm saving Downs Shepard for my last run, just to see how badly it can go.

I read that post on the indoctrination theory.  Makes sense, I suppose, considering the massive plot holes in the ending.  Just wish BioWare would actually comment the fact that 95% of those polled said the ending is shit.

[Wazuka]

Only problem with indoctrination ending while it makes sense of so many things, it offers zero resolution to the reaper problem. Like, if the theory is proven true, it leaves like a big hole to fill which would require some big DLC/xpac to fill because you still have to activate the catalyst/defeat harbinger because nothing occurred.

I figure we are going to see some kind of brotherhood of Steel/da:awakening type of dlc coming where they will charge up the ass.

[apheqks]

[Faisrole]

[Faisrole]

everyone is thinking the shit ending is because they ripped jarvik out of the base game and put him in dlc and originally he was key to the ending in some way.

[Wazuka]

Mass Effect 4 as follows:

[Collider]

Sold, ladies and gentlemen, to Wazuka for 1 internets.

[Collider]

http://blog.bioware.com/2012/03/21/4108/

Hrm.

[Blassreiter]

The reaction to Mass Effect 3's ending is the worst case of gamer entitlement whining I've ever seen.

I liked the ending narrative-wise but kind of found bits of the ride to the end kind of boring if well executed. The Marauder spam was just kind of eh and I would have liked a more traditional boss fight in there somewhere.

Bioware made an ending that unfortunately apparently required people to be a bit smarter than their average fan was, but then I still read narratives on how people cock up shit in the first and second games and don't understand how they do it unless they're intentionally doing it or total fucking idiots. Too subtle, too open ended when apparently the unwashed masses wanted cake and ice cream.

There are at least three distinct points at the end that can be seen as segues to or invoking an unreliable narrator: the fade to white when you get beamed by Harbinger, Shepherd passing out when Hackett is trying to raise them on the Citadel, and post-credits when the father-storyteller *explicitly* states that details of the story have been lost - implying what you *played* was a retelling of Shepherd's story and not objective fact.

There are a lot of little details throughout the game that support Shepherd undergoing indoctrination such as Vega's comments in the shuttle bay mid-game-ish about hearing a 'humming', the fleeing space hamster, etc. It's also clear that minimal exposure has far reaching effects if you had let Rana Thanopsis live in the first two games and I think it's safe to say that Shepherd has been exposed to potential indoctrination emissions much more than Thanopsis was.

It's amusing that 2/3 of the final choices rather explicitly leave the Reapers at the top of the food chain and the destroy Reapers end was 'oh totally don't do that one, it will suck because it will kill all synthetic life including you'.

[Faisrole]

Except hes alive at the end of that choice if you have enough galactic preparedness score.

[Collider]

I thinks a bit of a short-sighted overstatement, Blass.  

While I agree the people on the "I demand a happy ending" bullshit would probably have more luck at an Asian masseur, I happen to be one of the people irritated at how poorly executed the game finale actually is.  Enormous plot holes, actions in direct conflict with previously stated or demonstrated lore or mechanics, lack of any meaningful variance between the three endings, sudden off-character behaviour, and a big fat deus ex machina plot device are why I think the endings are shit.  I think they brought in the Wachowski brothers to write that ending, for fuck's sake.

I'm plenty clever, but that has no bearing on the fact that the relays should've exploded, thus wiping out all systems - Earth included - containing a relay, given that ending.  It has no bearing on the fact that suddenly all my squad mates on Earth are now on the Normandy in mass transit.  It has no bearing on the fact that suddenly every armada in the galaxy is now stranded in orbit around Earth, likely causing Earth to become the biggest slum/graveyard in the galactic neighborhood.  Not even going to comment on how Quarians and Turians are supposed to survive on Earth.  If you're willing to chalk that up to "details lost over time" then you are far more easily sated than I am.  It's a ham-handed ending.  And the indoctrination theory, while interesting, is obviously not what BioWare intended, otherwise I'm sure they would've mentioned that before having the top of the food-chain step in for PR spin.  Mention it ad naseum, BioWare didn't take that position, so it's irrelevant. 

Give me a bittersweet ending, give me happy; hell, I'll even take bleak.  Give me anything as long as it follows some semblance of continuity and doesn't immediately invalidate everything I've done in the previous 100-120 hours of game play.

[Blassreiter]

Please elaborate your points; 'plot holes' and calls to 'lore' are typically nerd code for 'I didn't like it but can't articulate specifics'.

[Collider]

Did just that to my post!  Eat a dick!  I can mention more inconsistencies if you need further clarification.

[Blassreiter]

I think you're overly dismissive of a number of details throughout the game that point towards indoctrination and overly invested in a literal interpretation of the events portrayed after you make the last decision. Ridley Scott and Harrison Ford wouldn't give a straight answer for years on whether Deckard was a replicant or not (until apparently they got tired of the question) I don't think the writers would have felt the need to explicitly endorse one interpretation or another of the ending - it kind of defeats the purpose of leaving the ending open to interpretation in the first place.

I think Bioware clearly failed by not having enough explicit narrative handholding at the end; opting for what I think was supposed to be either proving Shepherd's true power is to make people commit suicide or something more thoughtful and personal than here's another giant thing for you to shoot and here's fifty minutes of ending exposition for every little thing.

I don't really think you can assume anything that happens after Harbinger's beam to be actual literal events, but more likely its nothing after Shepherd passes out at the control panel. I would liken the final scenes to the end of Renaissance when the main character at the end creates in his head the narrative he would tell to the not-femme fatale to explain what happened (which wasn't the events that occurred) as he was dying. He never gets to tell her, she'll probably never know - but that's not the point. The events we are show could simply be what Shepherd envisions in their not-quite last moments - or maybe not - it's intentionally left to the player's interpretation.

The future narrator adds an interesting spin on the trilogy as it can reconcile all the different Sheps that are played and the different events as being different understandings of their legend.

The final and most important point is:

Bioware had stated that ME3 was the last game in Shepherd's story, but not the last Mass Effect title. They are unlikely to do anything that would damage the IP for the purposes of future products (nerd rage doesn't count) despite what fans might believe. I believe today's apparent capitulation was more a calculated decision based on how this may affect DLC sell through than wanting to assuage a loud internet fanbase's needs for a archetypal classic Hollywood ending.